Hi. I’m maintenance director for a senior community, and we have recently needed to add new radios for communication across the campus. We currently use DTR 410/550 radios. How do I get our existing profile programmed into the DTR600? When I tried writing it to the new walkie it said that the profile was not compatible. Is there a way around this? I thought these radios were compatible with the earlier models. Any help/advice would be really appreciated.
Thanks,
Gina
I’m not familiar with the Motorola CPS software, but many CPS’s allow you to export data to CSV format or similar, where you would use a spreadsheet say to do large data changes and save as CSV to reimport into a blank project.
So assuming the Motorola CPS does offer this, the data exported would lack the specific individual ID of donor radio, but potentially if the data profile was truely compatible between two series/models, the data from old radio could be (via export and subsequent import into the programming project file for the new radio type.
It may require fine tuning as some settings specific to one model may not fit a later equivalent or different series, but the more common part (frequencies, channels, simplex or duplex or repeater mode per preset channel, ‘selcall’ type function data such a tone squelch and group identity operation stuff) should be migratable by some means other than laboriously re typed in manually to create a new baseline template for new equipment.
Anything specific to model and CPS I can’t help with since I’ve no access to Motorola CPS or foreign market models to test the principle out with.
But in essence, that principle is how we typically have converted MotoTrbo style codeplugs used in DMR sets between sets so enabling the core presets etc to migrated between makes of CPS between different make radio codeplugs.
Given the DMR has origins with MotoTrbo (a Motorola system), I suspect some means exists somehow to migrate at least the basic data without a full ground up profile creation of that same data into a new profile/project.
At the very least, see if importing and exporting of data is implemented on the CPS for older equipment and likewise for the later software for the destination radio. I’m assuming that the CPS used differs, but if the data exchange described scope exists, potentially you may have a simple solution regardless of differing CPS’s or a common CPS.
At the very least, it bypasses the security lockouts that usually stop a CPS easily migrating data though loading an alien compatible profile that should be technically writable to a compatible radio. It’s imperfect if possible, how much effort it saves if possible I’ve no gauge of, but in the DMR radio world, it’s been a life saver and sanity preserver that such is possible on DMR gear.
So I’ll close there, leave you to research and hopefully get input by someone with a real guru insight to actual Motorola gear and migration experience.
The new DTR600 radios use the same programming software and programming methods as the Motorola DLR radios. They will work with the older DTR410 and DTR550 radios, but it takes a bit more work because they program differently. In short, Integrating the older DTR and newer DTR radios can be done if you change the settings in how they “look” for another radio within range.
The older DTR radio sends out a handshake signal on a channel, which is not really a “channel” in the traditional analog sense; it is a programmed frequency-hopping algorithm (called a talkgroup or hopset) that will change frequencies many times in a second, staying on any one frequency for only 90 milliseconds. For convenience, we simply refer to these digital talkgroups as “channels.” If the radio detects another radio within range on that channel, it checks to see if it has a matching Group ID number. If so, it opens the channel for communication. The DTR has channels 1 to 10, and Group ID numbers 1 to 100. Each ID can only be used once so there are about 950 unique combinations that can be used.
The new DTR uses a different system. It has the same channels (and same preprogrammed hopsets) as the older DTRs, but to detect if another radio is in range on the channel it is broadcasting on, it checks to see if the radio’s Profile ID number matches. Each individual DTR radio has a Profile ID number, versus the older DTR that has each Public or Private group has a Group ID number. The newer DTR600 has up to 30 “channel” hopsets and Profile ID numbers from 0000 to 9999. This gives it almost 300,000 unique combinations.
If you want to keep the programming on the older DTR radios, and program the new ones to match, you cannot simply copy and paste the settings and channel assignments. This is when you need to change some settings on the new DTR radios to start looking for Group ID numbers instead of Profile ID numbers.
You will also need the programming cable and the Customer Programming Software. (CPS.)
More detail can be found in my review of the DLR radios, plus the folks at buytwowayradios are familiar with how to integrate the older series with the newer series.
But here’s a trick that also works, and can be done from the keypad. You can return the older DTR radios back to factory default settings and start the newer DTR from the factory default settings. (Instructions are in the manuals.) The default channels all use the same hopsets, and simply change the Public Group ID numbers (on the older DTRs) or the Profile ID numbers (on the new DTRs.) If you can live with erasing all your programming and just getting them to talk to each other, the first five channels in the new DTRs correspond to the first five channels in the new DTRs.
But if you want to stick with the programming of the older DTR radios, the trick is to change the settings of the new DTRs to look for Group ID numbers instead of Profile ID numbers. This can be done in the CPS software. Your choices of channel hopsets will be much more limited because you are confined by the 950 or so choices of the older DTRs. (Still plenty of choices of course.) Interesting enough, I have used DTR and DLR radios for years, and even on the factory default channel 1, have never heard another DTR radio.
Note that I am going with the programming of the DTR410, 550 and 650 and how I integrated that into the new DLR radios, so there may be slight differences in how the DTR600 is programmed. (They use the same software as the DLR though.)
Another alternative of course is to reset your older DTRs to factory default settings, sell them as used ones and just buy more DTR600 radios. There is still a strong market for these popular, licence-free and very secure digital radios.
Well unfortunately, simply replacing all the older radios is not an option for me due to budget concerns, so I am stuck with trying to get the DTR600 to play with the other radios. It is necessary for me to stick with the programming on the older walkies. I already have the necessary cable and software (that’s how I found out that I cannot write my old profile to the new radio). So I guess I need to change the settings of the new radio. Thanks for your input while I am still trying to figure this all out.
If you need to keep your programming on the old radios and you don’t want to simply revert them all back to factory defaults, then go into the CPS and read from the new radios. Then, on the top right, click “Advanced.” Uncheck the box marked “Profile ID Number Lock” and this will allow you to manually enter channel numbers into new Public Groups at the bottom.
Scroll to the bottom and under Public Groups (Advanced) click Add. Change the name of the new Public Group that appears so that it matches your first DTR550 group name. Then change the Frequency Hopset number from the default 1 to the channel that matches your older DTRs. As long as you unchecked the Profile ID Number Lock, you can change the channel to anywhere from 1 to 10. Then go to the ID column, and using the drop-down box, change the ID number to match the Group ID numbers for the corresponding Group on your older DTRs.
Add all your Public Groups from the older DTRs to the newer DTRs.
Now, here comes the tricky part. The new DTRs may still have defaults loaded in for its channels. Switch back to the BASIC profile. Under Channels (Basic) click “Edit More” beside each channel. Now enter matching names that you used in the older DTRs. Under Mode, change from “Profile ID” to “Public.” Then change Channel Mapping into the appropriate channel name that you created back in step 3. Do this for each channel you wish to match to the older DTRs.
Now click Write to Radio. Disconnect and test. If everything works well, reconnect, read the radio again and then click Save to Profile. Write this new file to each radio.
If this doesn’t work, try one more thing. The DLR radios use Group ID numbers 1 to 20 by default. The DTR600 may work similar. This won’t matter to most users who aren’t using Group ID numbers on their new radios, but for users mixing old and new DTRs, this is the only way to get them talking to each other. You may have to change all the Group ID numbers in your older DTRs so they don’t use any ID from 1 to 20.
Here is an example. I changed all my older DTRs to something like the following scheme:
“Main” is Public Group 1, and uses channel 2, Group ID 21.
“Channel two” is Public Group 2, and uses channel 2, Group ID 22.
“Camera” is Public Group 3, and uses channel 2, Group ID 23.
“Props” is Public Group 4, and uses channel 2, Group ID 24.
Etc.
I’m sorry I haven’t gotten back with you sooner. I truly do appreciate this information. I will be trying this in the next few days. Thanks so much!!!
Reviving this topic after being dormant for 7 months.
It is possible to set up public groups starting at ID = 1 in the DTR600/700 models and in the DLR1020/1060 models, identical to the legacy DTR410/550/650 models. It is VERY easy to do.
I have had a fleet of DLR1060 radios working with a fleet of DTR650 and a fleet of DTR700 radios on public and private groups identical to the legacy DTRs. Public groups started at ID = 1 identical to the legacy DTRs.
The 4 digit Profile ID Number (PIN) feature is a new feature which started with the DLRs when they were released in 2015 and in the DTR600/700 when they were released on November 30, 2018. The legacy DTR410/550/650 models don’t have the PIN feature.
The requirement that public group IDs in the DLRs and DTR600/700 start at ID=21 is due to the restriction that a public group ID can be used only once in the radio. Profile ID groups 1-20 take up the first 20 public group IDs when the PIN is at the 0000 default. The PIN feature is OFF when the PIN = 0000. Profile ID groups ARE public groups when the PIN = 0000. Setting the PIN to a non-zero value even if you are not going to use any Profile ID mode channels causes Profiile ID mode group IDs to become something other than public groups and frees up public group IDs to start at ID=1 identical to the legacy DTRs.
If all of your channels will use the same hopset, leave the Profile ID Number Lock enabled (default = enabled). The CPS warns that disabling this and mucking around with the hopsets used may cause some features to not work and is for experienced users only. I recommend leaving this setting at the default (enabled).
There is some behavior with the PIN feature to be aware of. The last 2 digits of the PIN affect the hopset used by the whole radio. You can get around this by disabling the Profile ID Number lock but I recommend leaving the lock enabled (default = enabled) and choosing a PIN carefully. This assumes all channels will be using the same hopset.
PIN = XXX1 Hopset 1 used
PIN = XXX2 Hopset 2 used
PIN = XXX3 Hopset 3 used
PIN = XXX4 Hopset 4 used
PIN = XXX5 Hopset 5 used
PIN = XXX6 Hopset 6 used
PIN = XXX7 Hopset 7 used
PIN = XXX8 Hopset 8 used
PIN = XXX9 Hopset 9 used
PIN = XX10 Hopset 10 used
I recommend choosing a PIN carefully so the last digit(s) match the hopset you want to use. The default hopset is #1. In my programming, I chose a PIN that ends in 1, i.e., XXX1 to use hopset #1.
Assuming all channels will use the same hopset, there are 2 methods to set up public groups identical to the legacy DTRs and with group IDs starting at ID = 1. There is no need to change any programming in the legacy DTRs.
Method 1: Assuming you are going to use the default hopset (#1), leave the PIN at the 0000 default (OFF) and program channels as Profile ID mode channels. Profile ID mode channels are public group channels when the PIN is at the 0000 default (Off).
Method 2: Set the PIN to a non-zero value, even if you are not going to program any Profile ID mode channels, taking care to set the last digit(s) to match the hopset you want to use. Then program public groups identical to the legacy DTRs with IDs starting at ID=1.
In my DLR programming, DTR650 programming, and DTR700 programming, I had them all working with each other in a mix of public and private groups and with public group IDs starting at ID=1. I also had the DLRs and DTR700s working with each other on Profile ID mode channels too and with Profile IDs starting at ID=1. Method #2 above is the recommended way to program channels when you have a mix of Profile ID channels, public group channels and Private group channels. Private group channels program identical to Private groups in the legacy DTRs.
I like the DLR and DTR600/700 way of programming much better than programming the legacy DTR410/550/650 models. The DLR and DTR600/700 programming is less cryptic than programming the legacy DTRs. I am not surprised Motorola adopted the DLR way of programming going forward.