Whoops… I posted this previously in the wrong forum. Sorry 'bout that!
I have a lot of DTR radios, and as great as they are, there are a couple of issues with them which makes them unusable for my applications.
So, I’m interested in finding some more suitable radios, but there are simply so many radios out there, I really need some help to narrow down the list.
Here are the features I’m looking for:
Analog radios. I need no latency or delay.
Good range. The DTR has the best range of any radio I’ve ever seen, including VHF and UHF 5-watt radios.
Private (1 to 1) calling
Group (1 to many) calling
Audible channel selection (it “speaks” the channel number as you change channels)
Programming software available
Li-Ion batteries and bank charger available
Small and light like the DTR if possible
Bonus points if it were license-free (not likely with analog radios)
Programming can make most of the top tier analogue radios do what you need, but you missed one thing - budget.
Can’t speak for the US, but the license free channels in Europe aren’t catered for by the cleverer radios. Limited channels, loads of unregulated and unpredictable activity, and even anger from other users for all the buzzes and beeps the radios use for the cleverer functions. The radios that Icom, Motorola, Kenwood and others produce with grouping facilities, also comes with lots of other features and will probably cost more than the Motorolas you already have.
The bit of extra range in the fringes will be missed too, I guess - going back to the hiss and noisiness of marginal FM.
A shame you can’t stay with digital - decent analogue radios are also heavier too.
Yes - analogue is fine. They’re actually pretty decent radios when used on FM - you’d have to do the selection via CTCSS, but that’s OK. To be honest, most of the current crop of medium price radios would be fine - they’re all just a bit heavier though. The 380s are quite cheap, but square and chunky. Is that OK? Battery life seems ok, although I’ve had a faulty battery pack so far on the pair I have. Most of the digital radios can also have analogue channels programmed in, so maybe you could have a mix of possibilities available to you. My current favourites are Kenwood Nexedge digital, and I run all of mine with my analogue repeater, and audio is good.
The only real issue is license free - while the PMR sets will cover the frequencies, legally they’re not approved - here in the UK, lots of people use our free PMR446 channels with radios with higher power, gadgets and detachable aerials - all of which are not allowed!
Not for me to comment on your system, but here, a license isn’t that expensive, gives you a little protection from idiots and seems the sensible move.
Yeah, the DTR was so attractive because of the license-free operation. It’s amazing that AFAIK there are no analog 900mhz radios! I wonder why that is?
So I take it the Tytera radio cases are not as nice as the DTR. Are you saying that your NexEdge can run in a delay-free analog mode?
Yep - channel 1 in my hire stock runs through my non-digital Kenwood UHF repeater, using normal CTCSS, back to back simplex in the digital channels I’ve programmed in. They have the distinct processed audio and small amount off latency - which of course FM doesn’t have. I like the FM audio quality compared to the 380’s audio quality - not much difference, but I can hear the difference.
Re: the cases - just a difference in the type of plastic I think. The expensive Kenwood I’ve had for a few years are the same kind of hard plastic, whereas the cheaper Kenwoods are a thinner kind of plastic. The TYT is kind of in-between.
Absolutely - programming pretty similar to all the others - simplex, or duplex with any split you like, code options, and then all the digital stuff. I’m scratching my head a bit to get some of the analogue ID functions to work when called from the FM only radios - they don’t seem to quite do what I expect, but I’m confident it’s just me messing up the programming. Took a while to get the FM only ones to correctly produce the right info on the display. Always finger trouble, I’ve found.
Simplex is where a radio uses the same frequency for transmit and receive. Duplex indicates two separate frequencies are used. Strictly speaking, radios that do this should be called semi-duplex, because they can only do one thing at a time, transmit OR receive. Full duplex is like a phone - you can speak and listen at the same time.
The purpose in (semi) duplex systems is that they enable you to use repeaters. If you apply for one of the licenses that allows their use, then your range will increase, reliability goes up because dead spots and impossible geography aren’t so important, and of course range is always from the user to the repeater - if two users are on opposite sides of the repeater, they would not be able to hear each other, but the repeater hears both, and links them up.
Simplex is what all simple radio systems use - for a small area, it works fine, and is uncomplicated. Repeaters are expensive, need licensing, and often expensive aerial systems. Repeaters cannot work without duplex frequencies being in use.
If I have a number of channels on an analog radio with groups of people on each, then reserve channel #1 as an “all call” and have the radio set to scan channel #1 and the group’s channel, is the scanning system reliable and fast enough that it will always catch any transmission on channel #1? I’d like to know more about how analog scanning works, since I’ve never used it.
Are there any FULL-duplex analog radios? I’ve seen a few digital ones, but don’t know of any analog ones… (I’m not interested in repeaters or that functionality, just the ability to speak and listen at the same time)
If I have a number of channels on an analog radio with groups of people on each, then reserve channel #1 as an “all call” and have the radio set to scan channel #1 and the group’s channel, is the scanning system reliable and fast enough that it will always catch any transmission on channel #1? I’d like to know more about how analog scanning works, since I’ve never used it.
Are there any FULL-duplex analog radios? I’ve seen a few digital ones, but don’t know of any analog ones… (I’m not interested in repeaters or that functionality, just the ability to speak and listen at the same time)
I’ve never come across anything that is full duplex in our price ranges, apart from a few radios that can do cross band, on two separate antenna connectors.
The thing to remember is that most business and amateur designed radios will scan their memory channels, they don’t do it super fast - so the more channels in them, the more chance there is of missing a very quick call. Real scanners are designed to scan very fast - but even these when faced with hundreds of channels are not brilliant. My Yaesu radio in the van has 200 memory channels in use and is pretty hopeless as a scanner now - takes too long to do the cycle. My business radios with 6 channels work much better.
I see. Don’t they just scan channels that have been selected to scan? It sounds like you’re saying they scan all channels even if you have it set to scan only 2…
Scanners have lockouts to temporarily block the scan stopping, but most hand helds can be put into scan mode and scan whatever is in the channels. You can on most of them programme the scans to me limited - so you might have ten channels and the scan function does half, but that’s rarely user programmable.
So they can do it - IF programmed. Lockout by the radio isn’t usually possible because you don’t want users accidentally locking the critical ones out and scanning the wrong ones. Scanners need radio control from the keypad - the last thing a PMR user wants.
I’ve now tried the TYT MD380, kinda geared towards the DMR world, the analog functions don’t get much attention. There’s a bug in the scanning function that is a showstopper, so I moved on.
Tried the Retevis RT23, and it’s functions are spot-on. Has Dual-receive and voice prompts, has pretty much all the other features I want, but unfortunately, is a pretty cheaply-made product.
Are there any well-made products from say Kenwood, Moto or HYT that have these same features:
[ul]
[li]VHF & UHF in one unit[/li][li]Dual Receive (2 channels can be received and you can choose which to transmit from[/li][li]Voice prompt - the channel number or name is “spoken” by the radio[/li][li]Free (or at least reasonably priced) programming software[/li][li]Quality build like the Moto DTR[/li][/ul]