Complete radio noob and I have a question about running 2 channels simultaneously for heli-ski guiding. At the heli ski operation I go to in Alaska, guides use a business category of radio to communicate with the helicopter, dispatch and other guides. No repeater with reliance on relaying through the in-flight helicopter if they need to communicate with someone in another valley (line of sight).
Anyhow, the clients must also use radios and so they usually bring or get outfitted with standard blister pack consumer radios (FRS/GMRS). The issue is that in order to maintain communication with both the helicopter operation and the clients, the guides must carry 2 radios and use them separately. I was wondering if there is a model of radio out there that can simultaneously monitor both the dispatch/business frequency and the FRS/GMRS fequency and be able to transmit back separately? IE. The helicopter pilot does not want to hear client ski banter over his radio.
In the US, Businesses Radios use frequencies reserved for the Business Radio Service (BRS) and FRS/GMRS Radios use frequencies assigned to the Family Radio Service (FRS) and General Mobile Radio Service (GMRS), respectively. Business Radios fall under Part 90 and FRS/GMRS radios fall under Part 95 of the FCC rules. While it is technically possible to program a business or amateur radio to use frequencies in all three services (FRS/GMRS “bubble pack” radios are not programmable by the user, so that isn’t an issue), it isn’t allowed by the FCC unless the radio is type accepted for both Part 90 and Part 95.
And before someone else brings it up, yes, the user of such a radio would need to be licensed for both services.
^^ Okay thank you. So then that brings me to my next question which is probably alot more simple. Would it be the best idea to just purchase a fleet of business class radios for clients to use? My next question would be…how would you toggle between the 2 frequencies when transmitting? Would you have to manually switch the radio between the 2 or is there a model out there that can monitor both and transmit individually? Maybe 2 separate PTT’s or something? I’ve never owned anything other than the blister pack radios and the business radios are owned and maintained by the operation so I really haven’t been able to mess around with their programming.
I probably sound really stupid right now. I’m just trying to eliminate the amount of gear carried by the guides and the number of devices that need to be relied on.
While this is not a solution to the problem it does raise an interesting question. If the FCC doesn’t allow both a Part 90 and Part 95 radio why then can you still purchase a Motorola CP100 UHF unit that has access to both BRS and GMRS frequencies? (Example: 464.5500 (BRS) and 462.5750 (GMRS) ).
What this ruling passed after the radios were made? I’m just curious, perhaps someone can shed some light on this?
Edit: For those who are not familiar with the Motorola CP100 that series can be programmed by the end user to use pre-defined frequencies. So technically speaking the user could get the 15 channel model and assign the first space a BRS frequency and the second channel space a GMRS frequency accomplishing the task of having the BRS/GMRS option. I do think these radios were limited to 2 watt however.
Sorry. I think I meant FRS not GMRS. Is there a model of programmable business radio that can receive FRS as well as private channels at the same time?
Legally: No, FRS radios are not allow to have a transmit power over 0.5 watts and are required to have a fixed antenna. You ‘could’ use a business radio or ham radio to use an FRS frequency and to use the BRS/business radio frequency but that would not be legal under the current regulations.
I think the best option here would be to switch your client radios to a commercial grade unit, get the license, and keep everyone on the same frequency/channel. Outside that, two radios may just be the way to go.
Thanks. That’s what I figured. So functionally, would the clients radios be programmed to 1 channel and the guide’s radio to 2? Then the dispatch to the channel would be the one the clients aren’t on?
How does the guide toggle between channels when transmitting? Apologies again, I have no experience with advanced radio functions.
Ok, so there is a few ways to accomplish this. If everyone is using a commercial grade radio that the frequencies can be programmed into:
Guides, Heli, and Dispatch use Channel 2 programmed to Frequency A. Clients use Channel 1 programmed to Frequency B. The guides then to monitor both frequencies can have the radio set to scan both channels which will allow them to pick up any incoming calls and answer them without having to touch the radio (assuming they are using a remote mic or other accessory).
Leaving the channel selector on the radio set to the desired default channel will allow them to exit scan mode and talk to the set frequency.
example: The guide wants to be able to directly talk to his clients he would set the channel selector to Channel 1, then enter scan mode. Do this he can key the mic anytime and it will broadcast on Channel 1, but if while scanning he gets a call from dispatch etc it will connect him to the message and then he can talk on Channel 2 until the radio enters scan mode again. To contact someone on Channel 2 without someone else initiating the conversation he would simply switch the channel selector on the radio to Channel 2.
Similar to scenario 1 but differs in the radio programming. Again Guides, Dispatch and Heli all are on Frequency A Channel 2. But now Frequency A has a Tone associated with it say, 118.8 Hz (I’m using an actual tone value here to differentiate between Channel and Frequency). Clients are also using Frequency A but on Channel 1 with a Tone of 100.0 Hz.
Now, because the Frequency is the same on both Channel 1 and 2 leaving the guides radios set to Frequency A with no tone on the Receive side of the radio will allow them to hear traffic coming from both Channel 1 and 2. Setting the transmit tone of (118.8) on Channel 2 will allow them to talk to other Guides, Dispatch, and the Heli while allowing them to hear clients. To talk to clients they would change the radios channel selector to the first channel which also has the receive side set with no tone and the send side set to the 100.0 Hz tone. This way they can still here the Dispatch calls, but also the clients calls.
Here the tones set on the frequency acts as a filter to remove the two groups from one another but still allows the guides hear radio traffic from either party while on either channel.