Walkie Talkies for Church Security?

Output watts is not as important as the quality of the antenna, transmitter and receiver. As Rick pointed out, the DLR transmits on the 900 MHz band, meaning - in theory at least - they will be inherently better in and around buildings than an identical-quality radio in the 400 MHz band. It’s just physics; the shorter-length radio wave can penetrate better through doorways, windows and between rebars.

This of course is pretty minor, as technically there is not a huge difference between 400 MHz and 900 MHz. But in real world conditions, I have tested the DLR and DTR radios against the best in business-class and FRS radios, and in an urban environment, with lots of buildings and trees, the DTR and DLR easily bests every single handheld radio I have ever tested.

In fact, as I once reported in these forums as a review, the DTR radios were so good that magnet-mount external antennas on the roof of a vehicle actually degraded the performance, compared to just throwing it inside on the seat. The DLR uses fixed antennas as opposed to the replaceable ones on the DTR, but in my real world tests, the DLR was only about half a city block shorter in range before they cut out completely.

One major difference is that digital radios send out a short “handshake” signal to make sure another radio is in range. This takes about half a second or so, and one doesn’t even do “radio checks” anymore, as a quick push of the PTT will tell you when a radio is within range. Being digital, they either receive with 100% clarity, or they don’t receive at all. There is no fuzzy, scratchy transmissions at the edge of their range like analog radios.

If you are working with the great folks at buytwowayradios, then see if they will send you two DLRs initially, and find out for yourself if there are any dead spots. They are an expensive investment.

Plus, if you don’t like them, they have high value on the used market too.

They also have an advantage, being digital, that one radio can call up another radio individually and have a conversation, while others can still talk on the same “channel.” Analog radios cannot do that.

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Thanks again guys! Yes, I am trying to see if someone would send me a few units to try out first. I’m really excited about the DLR units and hope those work for us.

God Bless,
Ralph

These 900MHz radios are interesting - we don’t have this available here in the UK, so I have no experience of it at all - we jump from the 460ish top frequency up to 2.4GHz wireless - which is horrible for comms as it’s so busy.

Hello Everyone,
So, I purchased a set of Motorola DLR 1020 units for testing purposes and I am puzzled about one thing.

  1. When you push the PTT button you get a “Talk Permit Tone” (two beeps) and then speak immediately afterward. Ok, I get this.

  2. When you push the PTT button and the other unit is out of range, you get three beeps. Ok, I get this.

  3. However, sometimes when I press the PTT button I get a steady tone which doesn’t allow transmission. This occurs even when I am well within range of the other unit! I immediately release and then press the PTT button again and with that I can communicate as normal. So why do I get this apparent steady error tone because it makes no sense? Except for this one issue, the units are very impressive and I’ll be able to test them tomorrow at Church.

Thanks,
Ralph

I believe that is an ‘error’ or ‘denial’ tone. I occasionally get that if I release the PTT in the middle of a conversation, and then immediately push it again. I believe it is telling me that the channel is not ‘released’ for me to use because there was no handshake signal exchanged.

As you say, waiting two seconds and pushing the PTT again while waiting for the handshake signal cancels the error tone.

One thing I noticed is that everyone needs to be instructed on waiting for the Talk Permit Tone before talking or replying and they need to hold the PTT down while speaking. If they release and immediately push it again, the error tone sounds.

Thanks Chickenhawk. That is exactly what it was. It just takes a little bit of practice with the Talk Permit Tone. Although one unit seems to give the error tone more often then the other.

One last question. Is it possible to silent the Talk Permit Tone because I’d like to use the radios inconspicuously. Otherwise, is it silent to others if you have a headset attached?

Thanks,
Ralph

You cannot adjust the volume of the TPT on the DLR radios. (You can on the DTR radios with the latest firmware.)

With a headset attached, the TPT is not audible through the speaker, only the headset.

Hello All,
Just as a final update. I ended up going with Midland BR200 units. I really liked the Motorolla DLR 1020 but there were a few issues with them.

  1. The error beeps became quite annoying to the point of frustration. There was a learning curve to it which would have been fine for select people using it regularly. That will not be the case for us though so it was unacceptable.
  2. I did not like the Talk Permit Tone and there was no way of disabling that, so that wasn’t acceptable either.
  3. One of the biggest attractions of the Motorolla DLR 1020 units was it’s extremely compact size. However, when I added the belt clip it was then nearly as big as the Midland units tested. The design of their belt clip could have been better.

Anyhow, I was able to test the Midland BR200 radios and the Motorolla DLR 1020 units on our property, at the same time. The audio quality of the Midland units was equal to the audio quality of the Motorolla units for the distance required on our property. They are very simple to operate and have no annoying feedback tones.

Anyhow, I just wanted to give an update in case someone else found it useful.

Ralph

Sounds like a good choice for your purposes. I know the tones on the DLRs can be irritating at times, and it does take a bit of training, especially to not speak until permitted.

The BR200 looks like a nice radio, albeit not a licence-free option like FRS or DLR radios. The only issue is that it cannot be custom programmed to any frequency that will be assigned to you by the FCC. It is confined to the 100 or so business frequencies that are preprogrammed into them. This means when you apply to the FCC for a licence, the frequency you will be assigned will need to be one of those frequencies.

You might even be better off applying for an “itinerant business licence” (which includes frequencies preprogrammed or can be programmed using Midland software in the BR200.) These are a selection of frequencies that are shared by many businesses, but the FCC will do their best to make sure there is a geographical separation between most users. Unlike a normal business licence, you are not guaranteed exclusive use of that channel, but with a wide choice of frequencies and tone codes, you will probably have minimal interference in your area.

Unlike the FRS radios or Motorola 900 MHz radios, you can’t simply unpack them, turn them on and start transmitting. You need an FCC licence. Operating on an unassigned frequency means you can be interfering with licenced business users or even public service radios, and if you are using a different tone code then the licenced user, you won’t be able to hear them and they might not be able to hear you, but you will be tying up the frequency and critical calls might be missed.

LOL. I think I said somewhere on this thread that everything in two-way radios is a compromise of some sort.

Good luck and keep us informed as to your experiences with these radios.

I believe the headset jack on the Midland is the same as the Kenwood jack, so accessories are a wide choice.

Hey Chickenhawk,
We were indeed initially assigned a frequency that was not in the Midland default programing. Our Frequency Coordinator was able to quickly get us an appropriate frequency re-issued though. Midland also states that they can send you a frequency file to match whatever frequency you are issued if it’s different from the default programing.

I really like the Midland BR200 units. We do have one issue with the headsets though. They work well in general but we have an issue with clarity in one area which is also our longest distance. The conversations seem muffled and consequently difficult to understand when using the headsets in this area. Whereas there is no issue when using the radios without the headsets. I think there is just enough static that it affects the clarity of the headsets but it’s not noticeable when using the radios alone?

We were trying to carry on full conversations though, so maybe this isn’t practical? It’s not an issue though as we don’t need headsets in this outdoor area. We just noted the issue when testing the headsets in this area.

God Bless,
Ralph

What headsets are you using? If you are using the surveillance-style with the clear plastic ear tube, I have two pieces of advice based on years of having them in my ear 14 hours a day for many years.

#1 - Get good quality ones. They will last longer, and they have replaceable parts available. (The ear tubes need replacing on a regular basis because the slightest crack or a tiny bit of moisture can shut them down.) Because I wear mine a lot, I replace the ear tube every six months.

#2 - Replace the standard ear plug with an ear mold. They are 100 times better and don’t block ambient noise. They come in left ear or right ear, and sized to the inner ear. (Most men are medium and most women are small.)

If one of your headsets sounds muffled, try another one. If the sound is clear through the radio speaker, it should be clear through the headset. Try making sure you turn the radio OFF before plugging in the headset. This can create problems with some radios.

Let us know what you are using for headsets, and we will see if we can add anything further. If it’s the surveillance style, often it’s just replacing the ear tube that fixes muffled sounds. If it’s not a surveillance headset, you should consider those. Way more comfortable - with the ear molds - than anything else I have tried.

Hey Chickenhawk,
I apologize for being so slow in replying but we took a vacation.

I purchased both styles off Midland headsets (over-the-ear & surveillance) and both suffer with this clarity issue. Headset clarity is fine when limited to one building or the other (shortest distances). However, headset clarity suffers when attempting to use them between our two buildings (longest distance). There is no issue with clarity when using the radios themselves anywhere on property. It’s just the headsets.

Anyhow, I’m drawing the following conclusions.

  1. The audio quality of the Midland headsets is possibly subpar? Do you think the sound quality of the Kenwood headsets would be superior? They appear to be generic headsets which are simply branded?

  2. There is an issue with transmission strength? I initially tested some FRS radios but their transmission quality was poor between the two buildings. So I stepped up to the Midland 2 watt business class radios. The Midland business radios function quite a bit better than the FRS radios but maybe they are still just a little to weak for this challenging area? Again, we have no issues understanding what is being said with the radios alone. It’s just hard to understand what is being said when using the headsets.

a. Maybe a unity gain antenna would help? The BR200 antenna is only 2 inches long whereas they offer a unity gain antenna that appears to be around 6 to 8 inches in length. Maybe the improved signal will improve the audio quality of the headsets by reducing some static?

b. I purchased the Midland Decibullz mold and I will see if that makes a difference.

c. Maybe I should consider purchasing a few Midland MB400 radios to use in this area? These are 4 watt radios -vs- 2 watt radios. Does my FCC license cover a more powerful radio?

I appreciate all of the help you have offered.

Thanks,
Ralph

I would try a different headset and try a good quality speaker mic. There are a lot of rebranded cheap headsets on the market these days, and many of them have pins that are slightly out of spec. Make sure you push it in and it seats firmly. On some headsets, it can seem to make contact when not in all the way.

Midland does not publish their audio output specification, but I am imagining it is well under 1 watt. But if the audio is fine from the speaker, it should be fine from a good headset too. But some radios are just fussy about headsets. Try a couple of other ones before you start thinking it’s the radio itself.

Thanks Chickenhawk! I’ve ordered the unity gain antenna and a different headset. So we’ll see if those make a difference.

Ralph

Hello All,
I wanted to give an update, as I was able to perform some more testing.

  1. One of the issues with the Midland headsets is due to a mediocre PTT microphone, IMHO. You must speak authoritatively into them and such that you wouldn’t expect. Otherwise the audio quality suffers at the other end.

  2. The Surveillance style headsets have a very muffled sound, as if talking through a pipe, in comparison to the Over-the-Ear headsets.

Considering the above, we tested the Midland radios and headsets again between the two buildings and experienced a 10% improvement with audio quality. It still wasn’t as desired but it at least made the Over-The-Ear headsets usable between the two buildings.

  1. The greatest improvement however came after installing the Unity Gain antennas on the radios. Those offered a 50%-60% improvement in tone and audio quality between the two buildings. The difference was quite big and it now makes both of the Midland headsets usable. I’m still going to attempt to get better headsets though.

Otherwise, I am quite happy at the moment with our setup.

God Bless,
Ralph