I was reading through it and am amazed at how such apparently simple radios can require such complex programming menus. I will not really understand it more until I get at least two radios to play around with or perhaps I will find a website where I can get explanations about some of the terms that are used. The question that I began with is this:
If someone’s radio is listening to the “everyone” group channel (usually one) but I call them on the private channel that I have assigned to them (such as two), will their orange top button illuminate as it would if I used the normal private call option and if not, how will they know that I dragged them away from everyone else so they can talk to me securely?
What do you have set in yours that allows the orange button to illuminate? Look at every radio from both sides - as in what does your radio do under a set of circumstances and what does your radio need to send to trigger events at both ends. This applies to analogue and digital systems once you start doing grouping and clever stuff. Receive AND transmit parameters.
The easiest way around this is to use the advantage of the digital radios where multiple conversations can happen on the same hopset. Let’s say hopset Channel One is “Main,” and hopset Channel Two is “Office.” (You can actually program the DLR radios to say “main” and “office” when you switch channels.)
Instead of telling radio B to switch to “office,” you simply call out the name of the person you want on Channel One, and that person pushes their top button immediately after receiving the transmission. This puts them in the queue for a Private Reply, and you can now have a private conversation with the user.
The DLR radios don’t do the same private one-on-one call like the DTR radios, but they do a public-call; private-reply without the need to switch “channels.”
Thanks to both of you for such quick replies but my question remains, perhaps someone from BuyTwoWayRadios.com will also chime in.
By assigning someone who normally hangs out on Main, their own channel, in Chickenhawk’s example, Office, I would go to Office, key down, and Mr Office will be dragged over to me on their channel. I just want to know whether they will know that they are talking to me on the Office channel or think they are still on Main, their top button illuminating would be one way that they would know. My purpose is to never have to go to the main channel and tell anyone to do anything with their radio…KISS. I want to just scroll to their private channel and drag them to me. Otherwise, I could use FRS radios.
Here is my plan: I would like to have six DLR-1060s
Everyone in a small B&B in Canada (if ISM is not authorized above the 49’th parallel, then this whole question is moot) will hang out on the Main channel, 1, and anyone can either call anyone else or broadcast to everyone on that channel, or any other individual group member by going to their own channel, 2-6. My math should be correct because no one will be able to call themself. My reason is not that I want people to be able to talk behind each other’s backs, but so that any one-on-one conversation will not blast out of everyone else’s radios. My hope is to get most members into the habit of calling each other privately unless they just need the closest unoccupied co-worker.
Does it sound doable?
Yes - but just a pain for non technical staff. In essence you have an all call group and then individuals. You call Jane on the channel where your voice comes out of everyone’s radio, and then tell Jane to go to her channel - lets say 4. At the end she has to remember to turn back to the all call channel. Or you instruct everyone to have their radios on their own channel, so Annie calls Jane on her channel for a one-to one, and remembers to go back to her own channel afterwards, or maybe you set up a scan including an all call, but these things work great with radio aware users, but unreliably because they’re always on the wrong channels. While one to one is desirable, it needs discipline. The people who use zello have exactly the same trouble - they can set up groups, subgroups and individuals but it relies on people remembering. And they don’t!
Yes - but…
If I remember correctly, these radios can be set to automatically revert to their home channels after a few seconds of inactivity, or is that only after a legitimate private reply (from using the top button)? If I am wrong, then my whole plan gets flushed and maybe I should just look at cheaper FRS radios.
Everyone needs to be able to drag anyone away from the main channel as simply as possible (by not pushing any extra buttons except for the channel button) and both users must be sent back to the home channel after 10-15 seconds of inactivity. Perhaps everyone could stay on their own private channels but anyone could access a “call all” function? I want this to be so simple that a chimpanzee could not screw it up for a fresh banana, or a bonobo for what pleases them.
The 900MHz ISM band is authorized for both Canada and the U.S. (Not for UK; the DTR2430 radios once sold in the UK were in the 2.4GHz ISM band, and I believe are no longer sold.)
In your example, you would need a radio with a dual-receive function or with two receivers. In analog radios with this ability, you block all other callers on that channel.
Because the DTR/DLR is digital and has a private call (DTR) or private answer function (DLR) that is not necessary.
You have six users, but you don’t need all six with their own channel. (Picture a hotel with hundreds of users. They don’t all need their own channel. You have six “channels” such as Main, Maintenance, Housekeeping, Security, etc.) The latest DLR models with the latest firmware update can now do ten channels instead of six, by the way.
A large organization may have everyone hang out on their own channel. (All maintenance users on Maintenance for example.) If you need Frank in Maintenance, you switch to Maintenance and call for Frank. He/she answers you by pushing his/her top button, and you have a private conversation.
In your example of a small organization, you are making it WAY too complicated by giving each user their own channel. Use the advantage of the DLR for private answer instead. Set up ONE channel (“main” as an example) and all users hang out there. You need Frank. You call for Frank on Main, and Frank answers by pushing their top button. Now you have a private conversation with Frank. The orange light illuminates to illustrate this.
There is no need to assign everyone their own channel. It overcomplicates it and causes the need for more training on how to use the radios. Plus, they will be constantly switching channels from their own to the main one, and of course - like we ALL do - forgetting to switch back to main from time to time.
If for some reason, you choose not to use the private answer feature, then you go the traditional route and have two channels: one Main and one for secondary Private conversations. You then call Frank to go to channel 2.
The other solution, which is a bit more money and less compact, is to go to the DTR radios. You can call up any one radio on your list and have a private one-on-one conversation with anyone, with no further button pushes. Once the conversation is over, the radios wait a few seconds and then revert to their home channel.
The DTR radios require programming with the (free) Customer Programming Software so that each radio ‘reads’ every other radio, and the radio ID (user’s name) is stored in every other radio.
WOW, that is a lot for me to digest.
Your final paragraph has me thinking and I will have to research DTRs even though I have fallen in <3 with the DLR form factor. I see that if I do go with DLRs, I will only need the more affordable 1020s. I will not be there for more than one week after all the radios have been programmed and distributed. Every user must be able to do the same things as everyone else…there will be no dispatcher or radio shop.
The DLR is easy to program out of the box, and I would suggest at least changing the Profile ID number from the default “0000” to any other four-number configuration on all the radios. All radios in your fleet require the same Profile ID number.
I know this is getting even more complex, but if you use the free Customer Programming Software (CPS) and programming cable, it allows you to do a lot more programming.
For example, the channel number announcement can be changed to say the actual name of the channel. (“one,” “two,” “three,” etc., becomes “main,” “secondary,” etc., in a digitized voice.)
In the CPS, you can enable Direct Call, which is similar to the direct call feature of the DTR radios. It requires the CPS because you must read each radio’s individual Radio ID number into every other radio, but you can now direct call each radio by its number. (You can’t program a Radio ID name like you can with the DTR radios though; The DLR only reads the Radio ID number.)
You can also program the top button for a type of ‘super user’ who can call all available radios on all available channels at once. One of your radios can be the “manager” radio, and the top button can be configured to call all radios on all channels. But by using the CPS, you can also configure one of your ten channels (DLR 1060) or one of your two channels (DLR1020) to allow all users to Call All too.
If you want to stick to the DLR1020 for the form factor, it can be as simple as two channels for everyone, and all radios set to Private Reply for the top button. One channel is Main and one is Secondary. In my world, we have everyone on channel one for brief calls and important information for everyone, and then for more lengthy - but non-private - conversations between two people, we use channel two. (“Jane, go to two please.”) With the DLR, you also have the advantage of a private conversation between two users. (“Jane, please reply.” Jane then pushes her top button for Private Reply mode.)
Or you can go to the 1060 and program all radios to do a Call All on one of the six (now ten) channels. You can use the CPS to enable Direct Call, but this requires a few button pushes to scroll to the correct Radio ID number.
The DTR has the advantage of a screen that displays names or numbers of all the radios in any group, and you can direct call anyone.
Yes, lots of information to process.
Going to channel two for a more lengthy QSO would require both parties to remember to go back to channel one afterward UNLESS the radios can be set to return to their home channel after a few seconds of inactivity. My whole concern is, and this would make an excellent slogan, “Maximum Versatility with Maximum Idiot-proofing”. I began this thread by asking whether a group member could drag someone to a private channel without having them do anything and then have them both go back to the main channel after a few seconds of inactivity, all without having to press any additional buttons, and I think the answer was “no”. If we use one channel and private replies, then I can delete channel two in the software.
I do have the software (free is a good price). I mentioned earlier how it looks so much more complex, or at least “different” than the analog consumer radio software with which I am familiar. I do not understand all of the settings but would try to master everything by trial and error. It would be great if I could go to Motorola school or a radio shop, sit down at a PC, and just ask a tec, what is this, what does that do, I want to hear what that will sound like, but I might just have to figure it out myself. At least the 1020s will save me a few $.
Actually, you can program a Home Channel in the DLR, through the advanced menu in the radio or in the CPS. If you enable a Home Channel (it comes disabled by default) and specify the Home Channel, the radio will revert to Home Channel after 7 seconds of inactivity.
One channel and private replies is the most ‘idiot-proofing’ you will get, but I would recommend you keep a second channel as an alternate, and enable channel one as a home channel.
To do this directly in the radio, you press power/PTT/volume up buttons simultaneously. It announces, “Programming mode. Press menu button to continue.”
Each press of the menu button in programming mode cycles you through the options: Profile ID number/Maximum Channels/Top Button programming/Microphone gain/Home channel. To change settings in each option, use volume up and down. To change to the next option, press Menu. To exit, long press the PTT.
It sounds like for your purposes, the 1020 is fine. Change the Profile ID on all the radios to any four numbers besides the default 0000. Change the Home Channel to enabled, and the Home Channel number to 1. Everything else stays the same.
If you want to use the cable and CPS, it will be faster to program them all, plus you can name the channels instead of using the numbers.
I think that is the simplest way to go. Train the folks to listen for the TPT before they talk; to push the top button for a Private Reply within four seconds on request; to go to channel 2 for long conversations, and to not play with any other settings.
Private Replies have a 10 second hang time after a conversation is finished, but they can instantly go back to channel one with a long press of the top button.
If you wanted to add one more setting in the CPS, you can program channel two so that the top button is assigned as Call All Available instead of Private Reply, but that is probably redundant if everyone stays on one all the time and only switches to two for longer conversations. But it might be useful if they tend to talk a lot on two, and there is a critical need to call everyone. It can only be done through the CPS though.
I believe that you have answered my question. Keeping channel two available would allow three people to have a long chat while not disturbing the other three. I believe you just told me that whether on a private reply with the top button, or if I dragged them over to their dedicated channel (2-6), they and I would both be sent back to “home” after seven seconds (I think those seven seconds might be adjustable).
As for “playing with any other settings”, I remember that the software DOES allow me to restrict what harm any user can cause:
“Programming Menu Settings (Basic)”
Menu Item 1 Microphone Gain (the least harmful)
Menu Item 2 Empty
Menu Item 3 Empty
Menu Item 4 Empty
Menu Item 5 Empty
"User Menue Settings (Basic)
Menu Item 1 Channel Selection
Menu Item 2 Empty
Menu Item 3 Empty
Menu Item 4 Empty