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-   -   Fcc license question (http://www.twowayradioforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10187)

razor1000 02-27-2018 09:37 AM

Hello all I have a question
 
I'm new to this and want to try to do things right so I need some advice. I am buying a tyt th-8600 waterproof radio to put in my side by side to use as a trail radio to communicate with others on the trail short range. I've done a little bit of reading and please correct me if I'm wrong but I want to communicate to others using the cheap 2 way radios that you get from like walmart, I think those are gmrs frequencies? what licence do I need to get to be in the clear?

Thanks in advance

razor1000 02-27-2018 10:18 AM

Fcc license question
 
I'm new to this and want to try to do things right so I need some advice. I am buying a tyt th-8600 waterproof radio to put in my side by side to use as a trail radio to communicate with others on the trail short range. I've done a little bit of reading and please correct me if I'm wrong but I want to communicate to others using the cheap 2 way radios that you get from like walmart, I think those are gmrs frequencies? what licence do I need to get to be in the clear?

Thanks in advance

K6CPO 02-27-2018 04:59 PM

Re: Fcc license question
 
If the Walmart radios are truly GMRS radios, then you need a GMRS license from the FCC. There is no examination for the license, but the license fee is somewhere in the vicinity of $70. If you get the license in your name it will also cover your immediate family (spouse and children.)

Now, herein lies the rub. The TYT TH-8600 is an amateur radio and because of that requires a completely separate license to operate and it's frequencies are different from GMRS. To obtain the amateur license, there is a 35 question examination that you must pass with a 74% or better score. Some examiners charge a fee for administering the exam, but it can be no more than $15. The license covers only you. Anyone you talk to on the amateur bands must also be licensed.

While it's possible that particular radio might cover the GMRS frequencies also, it is illegal to use it on GMRS because it hasn't been type certified for GMRS by the FCC.

In the long run, you're going to get better communications performance if you buy the TYT, ditch the cheap Walmart walkie talkies for amateur band handhelds and get licensed.

jwilkers 02-27-2018 05:29 PM

Re: Hello all I have a question
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by razor1000 (Post 28676)
I'm new to this and want to try to do things right so I need some advice. I am buying a tyt th-8600 waterproof radio to put in my side by side to use as a trail radio to communicate with others on the trail short range. I've done a little bit of reading and please correct me if I'm wrong but I want to communicate to others using the cheap 2 way radios that you get from like walmart, I think those are gmrs frequencies? what licence do I need to get to be in the clear?

Thanks in advance

The TYT radio is not FCC certified for GMRS, so simply put.... you cannot use this radio to communicate with GMRS radios.

To use any GMRS radio, a GMRS license is required...but you MUST use FCC certified Part 95 GMRS radios.

ipfd320 02-28-2018 03:34 PM

Re: Hello all I have a question
 
I,m Sorry I Have to Reply to This Answer to the Moderator jwilkers Posted--I Have Been a New Member for Approx 2 Months Now--I Have alot of Knowledge and Use of Radio Equipment thru the Years---I Have Read Alot of Posts on Here and all I See is Alot of Negitivity and Dont do This and Dont Use That From You

as for the Answer You Gave (QUOTE) The TYT radio is not FCC certified for GMRS, so simply put.... you cannot use this radio to communicate with GMRS radios.

I Think You Should Read this From this Site---https://www.buytwowayradios.com/blog/2012/06/using_a_business_radio_for_gmrs.aspx

I Feel a Little More Encouragement and Maybe a Better Direction on the Right Purchase of a Radio From This Site Would Help Alot Instead of a New Member Being Discouraged and Let Down By Such a Sharp Answer

He Can Use FRS Radios from Walmart Without a License (aka) Bubble Pack Radios or for Real Short Range He Can go for the MURS Radios

Does it Really Matter What Radio is in Use ??--This has Been Sent Around Many Many Websites Honestly If You Dont Advertise It No One Will Know--Jmho

It Looks More Like RADIO Policeing Than Anything Else

razor1000 02-28-2018 03:58 PM

Re: Hello all I have a question
 
Thank you that was much more helpful

Rick S 02-28-2018 04:07 PM

Re: Fcc license question
 
The two threads were merged to eliminate duplicate posts and provide more clarity.

Rick S 02-28-2018 05:26 PM

Re: Fcc license question
 
I'm going to jump in to clarify this further and provide a little perspective in regards to the article referenced earlier.

As the article stated, if the radio is Part 90 certified for business use, then in theory it should meet approval for Part 95, even if it was not type accepted by the FCC for use on the GMRS. The key phrase here is in theory. Since the FCC (to our knowledge) has not specifically stated otherwise, it stands to reason the use of a radio with Part 90 certification can be used as a Part 95 radio, in theory. We discussed the topic in detail in episode 38 of the Two Way Radio Show Podcast, also titled Using Business Radios on the GMRS.

At the time the article was written, there were no mobile radios certified for the GMRS. During the last two years, Midland filled that void when they introduced several models, most notably the MXT400, which is a full 50 watt GMRS mobile radio, and a very good one, I might add. As such, the article is now somewhat outdated.

Also, the article makes it clear that although Buy Two Way Radios can program such a device for the GMRS at the request of the operator, it is the responsibility of the operator to abide by the applicable rules and laws. Keep in mind that the radio may be used to receive and listen to those frequencies, however it may or may not be legal to transmit on them.

We are not the radio police, and we have no authority or badge of enforcement. On the other hand, the forum has rules to protect everyone who uses it.

Just because someone can program a radio for those frequencies, doesn't mean they should. It's a matter of ethics and doing the right thing. I am not here to judge anyone for their morals, ethics, or lack of them. However, I am here to ensure that we do not promote or endorse illegal or unethical activity in these forums to protect all members. Let's keep it clean.

Even if a Part 90 radio can be used on Part 95, there is one more caveat. Due to the delays in production, we pulled the TH-8600 from our lineup before it launched, so I don't have one here to check, but if it isn't Part 90 type accepted, then the entire argument is moot anyway, because if it isn't approved for Part 90, it won't meet approval for Part 95.

To address the OP's question simply and directly, if the radios sold by Wal-Mart you refer to are the "bubble pack" FRS/GMRS radios under 2 watts, they are now considered lower powered FRS radios, which do not require a GMRS license to operate, and are therefore perfectly legal for non-licensed users, because they are "licensed by rule".

If so, then the question of whether the TH-8600 is legal for GMRS or not is irrelevant, because it is certainly not legal for use on the low powered FRS channels under any circumstances because the power and antenna limitations imposed on the FRS by the FCC make it so.

If you seriously want to get into ham radio, then an amateur license would be something to consider. However, if you and your companions just want reliable radio communications on the trail, an option would be to use higher powered GMRS handheld radios and a GMRS mobile, perhaps units that are repeater capable. Yes, you would need to purchase a GMRS license, but if you and your companions are all related, you would need only one, since a GMRS license is valid for the entire family.

We have a lot of articles, podcasts, videos and other resources in the forums and on our web site at Buy Two Way Radios to help you learn more about GMRS and consider all your options.

Here is a list of all the resources.

paulears 03-02-2018 03:45 PM

Re: Fcc license question
 
I have no axe to grind here, but when people ask questions about doing things that are not allowed, surely, the only grown up answer is to tell it as it is. especially as the forum is run by a commercial two way radio sales business.

I'm in the UK, and often get confused by the differences between our two sets of laws - but ours broadly reflect the US ones. Clearly in both countries people buy radios that are not compliant with the various laws, enter frequencies and use them. Normally, there is very little operation problem doing this, but it is not right, and a business who deal with professional radio cannot, hand on heart say it is OK to do this. The US FCC and the UK's OFCOM clearly do not have enough staff to even attempt to check radios on a public band - but that doesn't make it right.

If I ask if it's OK to buy a radio that isn't compliant and use it - the ONLY answer has to be no.

Quote:

Does it Really Matter What Radio is in Use ??
Practically, perhaps not, but legally and morally yes it does. You will never see a printed wide circulation magazine that recommends people do illegal things, even though loads do.

I'm sorry that a new member finds the forum unwelcoming because they have a policy of encouraging legal operating. There are lots of forums where people encourage using radios on channels they shouldn't be used on. Some detail how to access government satellite channels - plenty of people do this in south America and of course it's not legit at all. Other people use far higher powers than allowed. Others transmit in other bands not allowed. Some of these - like the satellite usage is very naughty. Using the free radio channels with a higher power radio is a bit naughty. Using these channels on low power is a slight amount of naughtiness. Breaking the law in this way is a bit like doing 35 in a 30 limit in your car. You might get caught but most people don't unless they do other silly things.

You cannot expect anyone to promote speeding as something OK to do.

Forums should promote doing things properly. Not fair to blame the mods, and he was quite nice about it I thought.

The other thing is that if you read this forum, you will find numerous topics closed for promoting illegal activity. It is how the owners like it - as members, if we don't like it, it is tough! Their forum, their rules. Frankly it's unreasonable for a new member with no history to complain about a moderator doing his job. It's a thankless task - and I personally support his decision.

K6CPO 03-03-2018 06:43 PM

Re: Hello all I have a question
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ipfd320 (Post 28681)
I,m Sorry I Have to Reply to This Answer to the Moderator jwilkers Posted--I Have Been a New Member for Approx 2 Months Now--I Have alot of Knowledge and Use of Radio Equipment thru the Years---I Have Read Alot of Posts on Here and all I See is Alot of Negitivity and Dont do This and Dont Use That From You

as for the Answer You Gave (QUOTE) The TYT radio is not FCC certified for GMRS, so simply put.... you cannot use this radio to communicate with GMRS radios.

I Think You Should Read this From this Site---https://www.buytwowayradios.com/blog/2012/06/using_a_business_radio_for_gmrs.aspx

I Feel a Little More Encouragement and Maybe a Better Direction on the Right Purchase of a Radio From This Site Would Help Alot Instead of a New Member Being Discouraged and Let Down By Such a Sharp Answer

He Can Use FRS Radios from Walmart Without a License (aka) Bubble Pack Radios or for Real Short Range He Can go for the MURS Radios

Does it Really Matter What Radio is in Use ??--This has Been Sent Around Many Many Websites Honestly If You Dont Advertise It No One Will Know--Jmho

It Looks More Like RADIO Policeing Than Anything Else

In response to your comment about "radio policing," the OP stated he was buying a radio that is marketed for the amateur bands and might be using it for other than its intended purpose. Amateur radio has always been "self-policing," so it's incumbent on us to educate people about potential improper or illegal operation. And "If You Dont Advertise It No One Will Know" serves no purpose but to breed anarchy on the bands.


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