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  #1  
Old 02-12-2015, 07:13 PM
ass3rtiv3 ass3rtiv3 is offline
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Default Two Way Radios (Walkie Talkies) for Film Set

Hi,

I'm interested in purchasing two way radios for film production. We will be both indoors and outdoors and want something durable (impact-resistant), versatile and weather-resistant.

I've used the Motorola CP200 on film sets, but am open to other models and brands (I've heard it's been discontinued). We want something commercial grade with good battery life (lasts an entire day of shooting) that will not require much maintenance or programming.

We are also interested in features that might be helpful on a film set, like the ability for the radio to vibrate instead of beep, and perhaps VOX or PTT, if that makes sense. Any suggestions for such features and additional accessories (surveillance headsets) that would facilitate using the radios on set are very welcome.

As independent filmmakers we are looking for a cost-effective solution but are willing to pay for quality that lasts.

Thanks for any help you can provide!
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  #2  
Old 02-13-2015, 03:02 AM
Chickenhawk Chickenhawk is offline
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Default Re: Two Way Radios (Walkie Talkies) for Film Set

Nearly twenty-five years on film sets, up to 14 hours a day with an earpiece in my ear and working with half the actors in Hollywood, and I have learned a thing or two.

Firstly, are you looking for a business radio with your own dedicated frequency or are you looking for licence-free radios? That will dictate how we can best answer your question.

You can use cheap bubble-pack radios and accessories, but you will be replacing them a lot. In two-way radios, you truly do get what you are paying for. Cheap radios made for families to stay in touch at Disney World are not going to stand up to heavy duty abuse, nor will the accessories. There is a reason why the vast majority of film sets in North America rent Motorola HT750 radios.

If you want high-quality business-grade radios without having to invest in your own dedicated frequency, your choices are to buy MURS or FHSS radios, or rent radios on an as needed basis. If you decide to go with GMRS or FRS radios, you will throw them away in a month. Plus, you will have every kid in a five mile radius butting in to your conversations.

MURS are also shared frequencies but there are far fewer MURS radios out there, and there is less chance that you will be fighting for air time with the local drive-through or airsoft gamers. MURS are also VHF radios, so they will work better outdoors.

The frequency- hopping spread-spectrum (FHSS) radios (Motorola DTR series) are expensive but very heavy duty, well-built and they have about the longest range of any UHF radio on the market. Because they are UHF, they are ideal for use in buildings, but I have also found out they are very decent outdoors too.

The nice thing about either the MURS or the DTR radios is that you get professional-quality radios that will accept professional-quality accessories.

Trust me on this one. I have tried every headset on the market. When you wear one every day for 14 hours like me, you know what works and what doesn't work. I use the 2-wire or 1.5 wire surveillance headset with the acoustic tube. I replace the ear plug with an ear mold sized to my ear. I can wear it all day long and not even feel it is there. Plus, I hear ambient sounds just fine, but is very discreet.

Hopefully this helps, but there is not much more we can tell you unless we know how much money you want to spend and if you want to apply for your own frequency or not. Licence-free radios such as MURS and DTR radios are expensive, but they are professional pieces of kit. If you are shooting web series with a Canon Rebel SLR or a BMPCC on a $400 tripod, then get GMRS radios and live with the limitations.

But of you are shooting serious movies on serious gear, get serious radios ... or rent them as needed.

Last edited by Chickenhawk; 02-13-2015 at 03:25 AM.
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  #3  
Old 02-13-2015, 03:24 AM
Chickenhawk Chickenhawk is offline
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Default Re: Two Way Radios (Walkie Talkies) for Film Set

Forget VOX or even vibrate. You will never use either one. There are way too many conversations going on to use VOX. Even in theatre where they need duplex communication, VOX is never used.

Get GOOD quality headset and microphone combinations, and use the PTT button on the microphone when you want to communicate. The walkie itself can be buried way on the back of your belt or under heavy clothing.



One other trick that I find works well is a speaker mic, especially when wearing heavy clothing.




Instead of picking the walkie off your belt every time you want to make or answer a call, you just use the PTT on the speaker mic and mount it close to your face. When you cannot use an open walkie on set, you can plug in a listen-only headset directly into most good heavy duty speaker mics. Again, I use an acoustic-tube surveillance earpiece with a speaker mic when I bury a walkie under heavy winter clothes.



http://www.buytwowayradios.com/products/xlt/SM400.aspx

http://www.buytwowayradios.com/produ...2W-AT1-NC.aspx
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  #4  
Old 02-13-2015, 12:11 PM
ass3rtiv3 ass3rtiv3 is offline
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Default Re: Two Way Radios (Walkie Talkies) for Film Set

Wow, Chickenhawk, thanks so much for your detailed responses!! Extremely helpful and much appreciated! Also, sounds like you have a really cool job on set and have worked on productions much much larger than ours...

First, I would say that we are probably looking for license-free radios. The FHSS radios sound promising, since they are UHF and can be used indoors and outdoors.

I looked up the Motorola DTR series as you suggested and they look ideal. The only thing is they are probably out of our price range for the time being. Maybe I can find them used on eBay or elsewhere, or rent for the time being with an eye on purchasing them in the future. Any particular model you recommend?


I started looking into buying radios because we will be shooting overseas for over a month, but on a very limited budget. I’ve gotten rental quotes (mainly CP200s it seems) but have been also investigating purchasing our own since we will definitely be using radios in the future.

One possibility that occurred was buying a larger number of inexpensive amateur radios, such as the following Baofengs or the slightly more expensive Wouxuns:

Baofeng BF-F8+ Dual Band Two Way Radio
http://www.buytwowayradios.com/produ...f-f8-plus.aspx

Baofeng UV-82 Dual Band UHF/VHF Radio
http://www.buytwowayradios.com/produ...eng/uv-82.aspx

Baofeng UV-5R Dual Band UHF/VHF Radio
http://www.buytwowayradios.com/produ...eng/uv-5r.aspx

Ham Radio Starter Kit - HT
http://www.buytwowayradios.com/produ...-HAM-UV5R.aspx


It seems that these dual band radios would be versatile, but I don?t really know the difference between an "Amateur Radio" and a "Business Radio". So I’m not sure if they would be appropriate for our usage scenario or if a license would be required. From reviews on Amazon, they appear to be used by a wide variety of people, including regular people in work situations, but also radio enthusiasts and some SAR (search and rescue).

Baofeng Fan Page
https://www.facebook.com/BaofengElectronics


I?ve heard differing opinions about the quality of these radios, but in general it seems they will not hold up as well as more expensive radios. But for the price of one business class radio, it looks like we would be able to purchase a large number of these cheaper radios, and just replace the ones that go bad:

BaoFeng BF-888S Two Way Radio (Pack Of 6): $89.70
http://www.amazon.com/BaoFeng-BF-888...dp/B00ECWE4WC/

BaoFeng BF-888S Two Way Radio (Pack of 20): $283.31
http://www.amazon.com/BaoFeng-BF-888...dp/B00ECWHI8E/

BaoFeng 10 Pack BF-888S (USA Warranty) 400-470MHz Two Way Radio - With Battery, Antenna and Charger (UHF Only): $153.99
http://www.amazon.com/BaoFeng-BF-888...dp/B00N296B5O/


It does look like they would need to be programmed, but it seems like there are places that will program for you before shipping. I could also purchase the programming cable and attempt to program them myself (I’m fairly tech savvy).

However, I understand that these radios probably do not fit the description "quality that lasts". And I believe that buying quality pays off in the long run. But they are certainly cost-effective!



On another note, I heard back from BuyTwoWayRadios.com (I emailed them), and they recommended the Motorola RM RMU2040 radios:

Quote:
I would recommend looking at the Motorola RM RMU2040 radios they are very durable water resistant and have great battery life but they do not have the vibrate function. Vibrate is not available on most commercial grade models unfortunately and VOX really want help you in a theater setting either .

The link to the radio and headsets is below that I would recommend

http://www.buytwowayradios.com/produ...m-rmu2040.aspx

noise canceling headset for loud environments

http://www.buytwowayradios.com/produ...2W-AT1-NC.aspx

the M1 connector would be required to be compatible

speaker mic

http://www.buytwowayradios.com/products/xlt/SM400.aspx

M1 connector would be needed as well

I also found a blog post on BuyTwoWayRadios.com (Dec. 2014) suggesting alternatives to the soon to be defunct CP200 (which is the only model I’ve used on film sets). They include the Motorola RDU4160d, the Motorola RDV5100, and the Vertex Standard VX-231.
http://www.buytwowayradios.com/blog/...the_cp200.aspx


Finally, I really appreciate your advice regarding headset and microphone combinations. I will take that to heart and pick some up, as your suggestions seem spot on. I had one question: what is the difference/benefit of using an acoustic tube surveillance earpiece vs. a standard headset earpiece?

Again, thanks so much for your advice and opinions!! I hope I haven’t offended anyone with my lack of knowledge in this area, but I am seeking to learn more and hopefully benefit from your impressive expertise and experience.

Last edited by ass3rtiv3; 02-13-2015 at 12:17 PM.
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  #5  
Old 02-14-2015, 07:04 AM
Chickenhawk Chickenhawk is offline
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Default Re: Two Way Radios (Walkie Talkies) for Film Set

No worries. Glad to help.

Those radio recommendations from our forum hosts at buytwowayradios.com are solid recommendations. The only thing to remember is they are all business-class radios, intended to operate on assigned frequencies. This means you will need to apply for a frequency and a licence. Plus, licences are not transferable from country to country, so when you go overseas, you will need other licences and frequency assignments. Depending on the country, this can be a bit time-consuming and costly to get a licence unless you are going to be using walkies long term.

Those cheap Chinese-made amateur (HAM) radios are actually reasonably good quality for the price. The problem is that HAM radios are not intended for business use. I will wait for people more experienced with HAM radios to weigh in here, as I am not an expert in amateur (recreational) radio.

Technically, you can program some of those Chinese-made HAM radios to send and receive common frequencies such as MURS, FRS or GMRS but it is not legal to do so (except in an emergency.) While it might be tempting to give it a try, thinking the chances of getting caught are slim, consider there are lots of regulatory agencies listening, and they may not be so concerned about a couple of kids using common frequencies for their airsoft toy games, but they will be very concerned about heavy business use from a film set. Fines are quite steep.

And, let's not forget Sarah Jones, and what happens when filmmakers break the law and try to "sneak around." I was being very serious about professionals using professional equipment.

Plus, if you program them for FRS, MURS or GMRS channels illegally, you are still going to have to contend with every kid and every drive-through in a five mile radius interfering with your communication.

Regardless of your choice, there is no guarantee whichever radio you choose will be legal to use in another country - or even in another location beyond the bounds of your radio licence anyway.

If I were you, I would investigate the cost of obtaining your own licence. It comes with your own dedicated frequencies, so there should be no interference from anyone else when used in your licence area. How much this costs and how you go about it varies by country, so investigate the rules of the country you are in. Once you have that licence, then look at those suggestions from buytwowayradios. They are good folks and they know their stuff.

If you decide to go the licence-free business-class radio, then MURS (if you live in the U.S.) or DTR (if you live in Canada or the U.S.) are the choices.

These are the ones I would recommend for licence free:
MURS (VHF)
http://www.buytwowayradios.com/produ...a-rmm2050.aspx

DTR (UHF)
http://www.buytwowayradios.com/produ...la-dtr550.aspx

As far as the DTR radios, yes they are expensive but they will last for years. I would skip the DTR410 and go straight to the DTR550. It has slightly better range, a replaceable antenna (you can get a shorter stubby antenna for a more compact package) and a high-speed (one hour) charger.

With the DTR series, you get the advantage of a digital radio, with very clear sound. You can program them with "groups" so that as you get larger, your "net" can expand with you. For example, everyone can be on one common frequency - sort of the equivalent of channel one. But you can program each department with their own subgroup. Any radio can talk to everyone; can call up any subgroup (transport, props, camera, costume, office, grips, etc.); or can call up any individual radio. There is no need for a channel two assignment, as anyone can talk to anyone else privately, anytime they want. Programming the DTRs can be a daunting task, and it takes a bit of time to teach people how to use them properly, but digital radios have many advantages on a film set.

When I am on the big sets, I own my own headsets (the ones I described to you) and attach them to our rental radios. When I am on a small set, and end up being the one to provide the radios, I have my own personally-owned net of DTR550 radios. I now have half a dozen of them, and would buy a few more if I could afford it. (The reason I invest that much money in my own radios is due to the unique nature of my job on film sets, and the need for high safety standards in what I do, no matter the size of the budget.)
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Old 02-14-2015, 07:15 AM
Chickenhawk Chickenhawk is offline
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Default Re: Two Way Radios (Walkie Talkies) for Film Set

As for the acoustic tube versus regular earpieces ... when you wear an earpiece or headset for 14 hours a day, five days a week, they ALL hurt, no matter what the design. A good acoustic tube with the accessory ear mold sized to fit the users' ears can sit inside your ear for days at a time without problem. You won't even know it's there. Plus, with the ear mold, they don't block the ear canal, so you can hear ambient sounds no problem.

But headsets are very personal items, and if you are buying for your whole operation, you may want to let people choose the one they like best. (Or get them to buy their own.)

I like the one-wire surveillance headset because I don't have cables running all over the place. Others prefer the two-wire, because they like to 'dangle' the microphone out the front of their shirt. When I am outdoors, especially in the winter in heavy clothing, I prefer the speaker mic option, with an accessory listen-only acoustic tube. I can bury the walkie in an inside pocket and don't need to worry about wires dangling all over the place and feeding them through multiple layers of clothing.

The only issue with acoustic tubes is that they can build up condensation when moving a lot from cold areas into warm areas. But they detach at the plastic tube part and a quick blow through the tube will clear any droplets.
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Old 07-10-2015, 07:57 PM
kidtreo kidtreo is offline
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Default Re: Two Way Radios (Walkie Talkies) for Film Set

Apologies for jumping on this thread but I'm looking for something similar but perhaps a bit more specific and hoped I could get some informed advice?

I too am a film maker looking for a "reasonable" ($200-$300? per unit?) system - probably FHSS, but long range and full duplex capability so mics can stay on for constant real time communication. Ideally this would have minimal latency for obvious reasons as well...

We are also heavy lifter drone operators however so are looking for an in ear headset and headset mic (that does't require a free hand to operate) that offers as much isolation and noise reduction as possible so both sides can speak quietly in a loud environment but still be heard clearly by the other. I was even considering exploring covert throat or jaw / skull vibration mics lol.

Any help figuring this out is very much appreciated!

Not sure if it matters but this system would be used around a BUNCH of other wireless systems including UAV remotes, wireless 5Ghz video and more so hopefully is robust and won't interfere or be interfered with...

Thank you!

~Kidtreo
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Old 07-11-2015, 01:23 AM
Chickenhawk Chickenhawk is offline
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Default Re: Two Way Radios (Walkie Talkies) for Film Set

I know exactly what you are looking for and understand your needs. (I fly r/c helicopters for fun, and I don't scratch my nose without rolling it into a ball of plastic and carbon-fibre.)

You are in luck. You can get inexpensive radios, that have long range and full duplex capabilities.

Sadly, you cannot get all three in the same radio system.

You will need to prioritize. Which is the most critical to your operation: full duplex, range, cost, reliability, lack of interference or clarity of the audio?

First of all, ALL UHF or VHF two-way radios are limited to line-of-sight. The best radios in the world don't provide that much more range than the cheapest bubble-pack radios. But considering all professional drone operations must be conducted with full line-of-sight to the camera drone anyway, I am guessing you are just looking for the best range, not unrealistic numbers such as 5 miles away or so.

Full-duplex intercoms such as we use in theatre sets sounds like a great idea, but they are expensive. There are some new self-contained full-duplex systems on the market, and might be worth looking at.

I suspect that full-duplex or VOX sounds like important factors in your line of work, but ultimately you just may not be willing to accept the compromises for what may prove to be a very small return. There are some good two-way headsets on the market with remote PTT that can be easily reached by pressing the transmitter against the button. Plus, the rule of operation could be that one does NOT talk to the drone operator while the drone is in the air. All communication MUST go through the spotter, and even then, communication can be heard but don't expect a reply while the drone is in the air. (This is my policy when I am handling guns on film sets; don't expect a reply when I am loading the guns, especially considering that I am the eye-line for when they are being fired, and if I make the slightest mistake, it is not only my life but you will also read about it in a thousand newspapers in the morning ... which, if you think about it, pretty much applies to professional drone operators as well.)

Personally, I would look at the best business class radios you can afford, and experiment with a variety of headsets. For example, if you use a two-wire surveillance headset, it would be a simple matter to loop the PTT button through the transmitter sling.

If you want to test out the FHSS radios, there are no frequency-hopping radios on the market that could ever interfere with anything, let alone radio control transmitters. The DTR skips at a rate of 90 milliseconds - which is way too fast to cause interference and cannot be monitored by anyone this side of the NSA. Plus, the DTR operates at 900 MHz, which is a long way from the new 2.4 GHz frequencies of your transmitter.

Picture how many wireless phones, wireless intercoms, radio control transmitters and garage door openers now operate on 2.4 GHz without interference, so that should not be a concern.

Hopefully, some of this helps. Investigate full-duplex intercoms systems, but I suspect you will decide it is not as necessary as you think.
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Old 09-16-2015, 03:51 PM
kidtreo kidtreo is offline
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Default Re: Two Way Radios (Walkie Talkies) for Film Set

Please forgive the loooong delay in getting back Chickenhawk and thank you for responding! In order of priority we are looking for:

full duplex
range
lack of interference
clarity (audio quality)
reliability
cost (so I guess this is going to get expensive lol).

MOST CRITICAL IS THAT THIS SYSTEM INTERFERE AS LITTLE AS POSSIBLE WITH OUR DRONE WIRELESS SYSTEMS INCLUDING 2, 2.4GHZ LONG RANGE VIDEO SYSTEMS, RC, 5Ghz follow focus not to mention GPS and compass of DJI A2 controller LOL.
Yes - our 333 exemption requires line of sight, but there are times when our crew is behind trees (non line of sight) even if we do have eyes on our drone so non line of sight would be great.

I bought a set of Motorola DTR550 for an associate of mine and they work pretty well but aren't duplex and have some pretty severe delay when starting com. Range was good if I recall though...

Many thanks again...if I could also ask, what kind of in ear headset / boom mic systems you recommend for hearing well in loud environments - as well as being heard when speaking in a loud environment that'd be great as we're flying 55 pound Heavy Lifter Drone which makes quite a ruckus LOL.

BTW - you sound very interesting and I'd love to take this conversation off forum if you can spare a few minutes. My email is PCG [at] FLIGHTAV [dotcom]

Cheers!

Kid Treo





Quote:
Originally Posted by Chickenhawk View Post
I know exactly what you are looking for and understand your needs. (I fly r/c helicopters for fun, and I don't scratch my nose without rolling it into a ball of plastic and carbon-fibre.)

You are in luck. You can get inexpensive radios, that have long range and full duplex capabilities.

Sadly, you cannot get all three in the same radio system.

You will need to prioritize. Which is the most critical to your operation: full duplex, range, cost, reliability, lack of interference or clarity of the audio?

First of all, ALL UHF or VHF two-way radios are limited to line-of-sight. The best radios in the world don't provide that much more range than the cheapest bubble-pack radios. But considering all professional drone operations must be conducted with full line-of-sight to the camera drone anyway, I am guessing you are just looking for the best range, not unrealistic numbers such as 5 miles away or so.

Full-duplex intercoms such as we use in theatre sets sounds like a great idea, but they are expensive. There are some new self-contained full-duplex systems on the market, and might be worth looking at.

I suspect that full-duplex or VOX sounds like important factors in your line of work, but ultimately you just may not be willing to accept the compromises for what may prove to be a very small return. There are some good two-way headsets on the market with remote PTT that can be easily reached by pressing the transmitter against the button. Plus, the rule of operation could be that one does NOT talk to the drone operator while the drone is in the air. All communication MUST go through the spotter, and even then, communication can be heard but don't expect a reply while the drone is in the air. (This is my policy when I am handling guns on film sets; don't expect a reply when I am loading the guns, especially considering that I am the eye-line for when they are being fired, and if I make the slightest mistake, it is not only my life but you will also read about it in a thousand newspapers in the morning ... which, if you think about it, pretty much applies to professional drone operators as well.)

Personally, I would look at the best business class radios you can afford, and experiment with a variety of headsets. For example, if you use a two-wire surveillance headset, it would be a simple matter to loop the PTT button through the transmitter sling.

If you want to test out the FHSS radios, there are no frequency-hopping radios on the market that could ever interfere with anything, let alone radio control transmitters. The DTR skips at a rate of 90 milliseconds - which is way too fast to cause interference and cannot be monitored by anyone this side of the NSA. Plus, the DTR operates at 900 MHz, which is a long way from the new 2.4 GHz frequencies of your transmitter.

Picture how many wireless phones, wireless intercoms, radio control transmitters and garage door openers now operate on 2.4 GHz without interference, so that should not be a concern.

Hopefully, some of this helps. Investigate full-duplex intercoms systems, but I suspect you will decide it is not as necessary as you think.

Last edited by kidtreo; 09-16-2015 at 03:59 PM.
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  #10  
Old 09-16-2015, 05:17 PM
Chickenhawk Chickenhawk is offline
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Default Re: Two Way Radios (Walkie Talkies) for Film Set

Check out Eartec for full-duplex wireless communications. The problem will always remain that full duplex is just not made for longer range communications. It is more for use inside theatres, and where they can even install repeaters to help fill dead spots. You would be lucky to get half a mile with a full duplex system.

Plus, most of them operate in the 2.4GHz band. The only way to see if they will interfere is to try them. Technically, they shouldn't because they (along with your transmitter) use a frequency-hopping system to prevent interference in spite of literally hundreds of electronic objects within range.

Sadly, like most other things in life, everything in two-way radios is a compromise. You can get duplex, but not range; you can get cheap but be plagued with interference; you can get secure communications and excellent clarity with maximum range, but you put up with a half-second delay because of digital latency.

Try a full duplex system first. It may just be what you want. Maybe find a local supplier who will let you rent a system for a few weeks before you buy.

As for radios that are not duplex, the new digital Motorola DLR1020 and DLR1060 radios should be right up your runaway (so to speak.) Cheaper than the DTR series, they work the same and can be integrated into the same frequencies as the DTR radios. Their range is just as good, and they are half the size and weight.

As for headsets, I stick with the two-wire surveillance headset. It goes into a clear acoustic tube, and I normally discard the factory ear plug in favor of a ear mould sized to my ear. This way, I can hear all ambient sounds just fine as they do not block the whole ear canal like the factory earpiece. For your purposes, you might want to stick to the factory ear plug, and put a simple foam earplug in the other ear.

But you may need a headset with a boom mic. You can get some really good quality "NFL" style single earmuff headsets with built-in boom mics for loud environments from our forum hosts at buytwowayradios, or you can get lightweight headsets with boom mics. You will need the ones their own built-in PTT, as you don't want to fumble with the PTT on the radio. When shopping for headsets, take a look at where they have the PTT. There are some that have a PTT wired part way up the cord and fit nicely right around waist level and are soft enough a push that you can press back on your r/c transmitter to open the circuit. (The button push on one lightweight headset was actually TOO soft a push for me. Just ask me ... I had an entire film set listen to me go to the washroom once!)

PM me when you get this and we can share notes some day. I had a look at your website and you folks do some high-end stuff!

Last edited by Chickenhawk; 09-16-2015 at 05:35 PM.
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